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Thread: Why are we not so picky with our mares?

  1. #11
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    Because they don't necessarily know And who doesn't love a foal

    As HR says no horse is conformationally perfect, the aim is to breed a foal with as close to perfect conformation as possible (according to the breed and use). If we only used the best mares the breeds would end up with a tiny gene pool and possibly inherit genetic conditions etc.

    However there are far too many horses without homes nowadays and imo, unless the breed is rare and needs maintaining (as such) then breeding should be few and far between.

    I think what I'm trying to say is; strive to eradicate conformational issues, but remember that no horse is perfect and you cannot maintain a good gene pool with minimal horses, therefore some minor conformational issues can be overlooked when breeding, but major ones, should not.

  2. #12
    Friesian80 Guest

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    I guess I just see and hear of too many mares being bred from because they can or perhaps owner see 's, they will carefully select a stally but choose to forget their mare is far from breeding material

  3. #13

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    There aren't very tight rules on the Friesian mare your ony requirement is that to use a approved stallion the mare must be foalbook registered. It is suggested that you should have the mare studbook registered so that you can use the grading report to supplement your mare with the correct stallion. For example it was suggested I breed my mare with a finer stallion to get a more modern build horse...err NO, personally I would prefer a traditional build.

    I guess at the end of the day it is normally the mare owner who has to fork out for the breeding costs, and runs the risk of loosing both mare and foal. So why not be picky. Also the mare's owner knows their horse, their areas of strenght and weakness. But with the stallion you are 100% reliant on a the owner so things like grading and stallion selection are very good. Even at keurings a horse will be running on adreliane and the atmoshpere of being chased ect so their movement will naturally be "bigger" than when ridden normally.

    But if the mare ownwer is totaly against the fact that their horse is not 100% perfect you run the risk of not getting a good confirmation or breed type. For my girl I've had to really look at her build and movements and be mean...so I have a idea of features I would like to fine tune when breeding.
    Last edited by swartperd; 25-05-2010 at 20:24.

  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Friesian80 View Post
    So why do ppl breed from their mares if they know she has confirmational problems? Cause in my experience it goes on quite a lot, picking a stally who is of good quality doesnt always mean those bad confirmation traits are going to be lost...surely?

    It depends what you mean by "conformation problems" because some are a lot more serious than others. Every horse will have some fault in their conformation, there is no such thing as a perfect horse. There are a lot of conformation faults that cause no problems whatsoever to the horses use for riding or whatever, but are just not "ideal". The trick is to pick a stallion who will improve these particular faults, so it is important to look at what he has produced from what mares.
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  5. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Friesian80 View Post
    So why do ppl breed from their mares if they know she has confirmational problems? Cause in my experience it goes on quite a lot, picking a stally who is of good quality doesnt always mean those bad confirmation traits are going to be lost...surely?
    Bcause it's cute and they love it a lot and it can do no wrong (now I sound like the woman that writes that fugly blog )

    FAOD that is not a pop at anyone on the board and I acknowledge that it's a sweeping generalisation.

  6. #16

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    The breeding is down to what the mare's owner wants from the whole breeding process. Everyone will have different aims be it to have the next dressage diva or show jumper, maybe just a family friend or to experience the whole foal to adult process or even calm a hormonal mare. Guess everyone will have a different goal which is important to them.

  7. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robyn View Post
    But good studs should turn down mares that will not improve the breed
    And good studs do! The problem is poeple aren't picking good studs, they are picking studs that *they* think are worldclass.
    You can't just breed any old mare to a worldclass race winning TB, or an worldclass showjumper ... but you can breed any old mare to a *cough* worldclass knabstrupper it seems.

    The reason stallions and chromosomes come into play is this. And I don't think I can explain it very well....... Males determine the sex, by passing on either their x, or y chromosome ... a colt, has the same genes of his sire that that sire got from his sire (on the 'y')
    You can be sure that if both sire and grandsire had elements on their Y chromosome that contributed to their success, then the resulting male progeny will also have those genes. The factors that contributed to their success could equally be on their 'x' chromosome of course ... which is why no stallion is really considered worldclass unless he has winning progeny and stallion sons of equal quality. Its a sort of method of 'quality control' if you like. Of course the same is equally true with mares, but because mares are owned by their owners, you don't get the same quality control process....

    Name for me a famous mare, who produced a famous mare who has a string of winning progeny? You can't. The mare can only have one foal a year, so the chances of the horses she breeds (accounting for different stallion choices etc etc) making the grade is less.

    Yes, there are famous mares, who produced more then one champion, but it pretty much stops there.

    Imagine you had a full sister to Cruising. Cruising bred 100's of horses in his lifetime, a large % of which went on to be fabulous showjumpers and stallions themselves, now imagine hypothectically if he had a full sister of the same calibre... how many foals could she have had? 10?! So if you talk about the chances of her foals being of the same calibre, you might get one who made it to the top. That leaves only one, mare or stallion to carry on whatever it was made her special. And if the progney of that foal are colts, then they mightn't have the 'x' that made her and her one good foal successful. Get me? You start losing the 'benchmark' chromosomes quicker.

    And this is why people most commonly refer to the sire and damsire when referring to breeding.

  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Friesian80 View Post
    So why do ppl breed from their mares if they know she has confirmational problems? Cause in my experience it goes on quite a lot, picking a stally who is of good quality doesnt always mean those bad confirmation traits are going to be lost...surely?
    Because if it's got a womb and it ain't doing nothing else bung it in foal far too many mares put in foal for this reason.

  9. #19
    Friesian80 Guest

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    Interesting thanks for explaining




    Quote Originally Posted by Rips View Post
    And good studs do! The problem is poeple aren't picking good studs, they are picking studs that *they* think are worldclass.
    You can't just breed any old mare to a worldclass race winning TB, or an worldclass showjumper ... but you can breed any old mare to a *cough* worldclass knabstrupper it seems.

    The reason stallions and chromosomes come into play is this. And I don't think I can explain it very well....... Males determine the sex, by passing on either their x, or y chromosome ... a colt, has the same genes of his sire that that sire got from his sire (on the 'y')
    You can be sure that if both sire and grandsire had elements on their Y chromosome that contributed to their success, then the resulting male progeny will also have those genes. The factors that contributed to their success could equally be on their 'x' chromosome of course ... which is why no stallion is really considered worldclass unless he has winning progeny and stallion sons of equal quality. Its a sort of method of 'quality control' if you like. Of course the same is equally true with mares, but because mares are owned by their owners, you don't get the same quality control process....

    Name for me a famous mare, who produced a famous mare who has a string of winning progeny? You can't. The mare can only have one foal a year, so the chances of the horses she breeds (accounting for different stallion choices etc etc) making the grade is less.

    Yes, there are famous mares, who produced more then one champion, but it pretty much stops there.

    Imagine you had a full sister to Cruising. Cruising bred 100's of horses in his lifetime, a large % of which went on to be fabulous showjumpers and stallions themselves, now imagine hypothectically if he had a full sister of the same calibre... how many foals could she have had? 10?! So if you talk about the chances of her foals being of the same calibre, you might get one who made it to the top. That leaves only one, mare or stallion to carry on whatever it was made her special. And if the progney of that foal are colts, then they mightn't have the 'x' that made her and her one good foal successful. Get me? You start losing the 'benchmark' chromosomes quicker.

    And this is why people most commonly refer to the sire and damsire when referring to breeding.

  10. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rips View Post
    And good studs do! The problem is poeple aren't picking good studs, they are picking studs that *they* think are worldclass.
    You can't just breed any old mare to a worldclass race winning TB, or an worldclass showjumper ... but you can breed any old mare to a *cough* worldclass knabstrupper it seems.
    Well, I dont know about that! You can however, breed a graded mare with world class breeding to a world class knabstrupper
    What would I do without you, my loyal and precious friend?
    Part mischief, but all blessing, and faithful to the end.

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